Show all articles

Joewi Verhoeven - Bootcamp Style & Cutting yourself some Slack

Amsterdam, 2025-02-06 - Gerlinda Heywegen

Joewi Verhoeven (1986) planned to go to the Amsterdam Filmacademie because he already knew at a young age that he wanted to make films: “I thought I wanted to be a director. I wanted to tell stories on film, not so much occupy myself with the technical side of things. But I wasn’t accepted for Directing, which, in hindsight, was a good thing, since I was only seventeen at the time. I did pass the first round, got to ‘the’ talk in which I was told unanimously that they had decided that I was still too young. ‘Come back in a few years’ time,’ is what they told me.
That was the trigger for me, in fact: I thought: ‘How about going to China for a year and gaining some life-experience’. The rejection led directly to that decision. And they were totally right. I come from the small village of Zeeland, in the province of Noord-Brabant. Coincidentally, Aziz (Al-Dilaimi) who you interviewed as well, comes from the same village. We were even in the same class in kindergarten.
So, I grew up in a small village with the desire to discover more of the world. I wanted to have adventures and big ones at that! My mother always wanted her sons to be able to speak Chinese, so she supported my plan (Verhoeven is half Dutch, half Chinese). I left for Beijing to study Chinese. It was exiting, together with people from various countries, and in such a big city. In every possible way the opposite of Zeeland. It was highly stimulating. I was also really involved in music. I joined a band and we started performing. After a year, I really wanted to stay and I decided to continue my education. But film never left my mind. Would I go back to the Netherlands or move to the States? But then I recalled that there was a Film Academy in Beijing which was highly respected to boot. After studying Chinese for four years, I thought: ‘it would be the ultimate test to see whether I can do this in Chinese’. One of my teachers advised me to do Cinematography, to learn a craft, and to not go for Directing. A better chance of finding a job. ‘That is something you can always pick up at a later stage’, is what she said. And she knew that Zhang Yimou (Raise the Red Lantern, Hero, etc.) had also started out as a DOP. If he could do it… I realised that my reason for choosing Directing mainly had to do with the fact that I was not technically savvy at all. Lenses and things like that, I knew nothing about them, and wasn’t particularly interested either. Despite that, I was accepted at the academy in Beijing and was the only foreigner in my class. The first year was especially hard, a bit Soviet style; they trained tradespeople. And for me that was exactly what I needed. We got right into the technical part, which was very overwhelming for me and on top of that, it was all done in Chinese. I started in 2009, which was also the last generation to work with film; after that, they soon went digital.

After that first, tough year, I quickly settled in. I can genuinely say that cinematography grounded me. I was always quite the dreamer, but this very practical trade opened a new world for me. And I began to love it. I knew this was my thing and Directing wasn’t. I still feel the same. I don’t have the mode of thinking that a director has. I like being given an idea and giving it my personal touch. I find that way of collaborating really cool. It makes me grow. I have directed some films, such as my graduation film, and I noticed that I tended towards doing the same thing pretty fast and that I reached my limits. Working with others brought me much further. As DOP you are on set more often and you have to reinvent your trade with each director, which is exactly the thing I enjoy. I like finding out ‘what does that director need?’

Soon after finishing the academy, I got access to the Chinese film market. Otherwise I would probably have gone back to Europe. I got an offer which was for Nezha. I hadn’t expected that, to be honest. A feature film right away. Something like the right moment, the right time, in about 2014 or 2015. At the time, the Chinese film industry was quite booming. For me Nezha was the ideal project, quite arthouse-y, independent, with a nice budget. We had the means and we could be creative. The director, Xiaofeng Li, was a first time director himself. A special combination with me. I got into the production because my graduation film had won an award. I think that was the route that got me onto someone’s radar and finally to Li. We had similar ideas, I got freedom. I could really be creative, which was very nice. I put together my own crew, all in Chinese, of course. All in all, a big step. And that set things in motion. Nezha premiered at the Busan film festival, an ideal start for the film. It got me more offers. It is often said that the first film is the hardest. So, I was lucky and I am grateful for that as well. China has been a really good learning experience. Now, here in the States, where I’ve been since 2021, things are more structured; as a newcomer, you don’t get to work on the big films right away; you have to climb a ladder. But in China back then, it was possible. Actually, in hindsight, it was all a bit bootcamp style.”

ARTISTIC FREEDOM
About that first film in China, Nezha, a coming of age story about the friendship between two girls who slowly lose sight of each other… Verhoeven’s camerawork is something you immediately notice, especially because of the colours chosen, and the camera movements. In a night scene, one of the girls runs into the street, following her mother and ends up spying on her from behind a wall, for instance. Mother, to the right in the background, in front of a cafe door – that part has a pink-red-orange hue; daughter to the left in the front, leaning against that stone wall, is covered in a greenish light. How did Verhoeven do that?

Still 'Nezha' (2014)

“What I can remember, is that I found a lot of my inspiration on site. At the time, the street lighting in China just had that orangey hue. The green, we added ourselves. To me, orange and green are two complementary colours. I think that is beautiful. And the texture of the walls, which you find in many places in China, is something that I like to use. They have such a lived-in look, which is beautiful to shoot; it makes everything look good, especially when you reinforce it with colour.

But, regarding lighting, we mainly worked naturally. Using the sources that were already there. With Ash, the second film I made with Xiaofeng Li in 2016, we went a bit further with the addition of colours. That is why that one became more expressive, a really conscious choice. Taking artistic freedom, not being within reality per se, creating our own world. That was caused and reinforced by Chongqing, the city in which we shot; it is just so special. You are in the mountains, there are lots of skyscrapers – it is a supersized city; there are so many colours. Because of the height difference that changed all the time according to your location in the city, because of the skyscrapers’ neon lights, it became a kind of fantasy city, which made it the right backdrop. An imagined city.”

Still 'Ash'' (2016)

Verhoeven hastens to add a technical note that he would have to share because it is important to him. “Panasonic just had a new camera out on the market back then: the Panasonic Varicam, the first cinema camera with Dual Native ISO, two different light sensitivities. It had the option of going to 5000 ISO. Nowadays, all cameras have that. But it could perceive more than I could with the naked eye. It could catch colours in the dark as if you saw them with your own eyes. That is how light sensitive it was. So, we were in Chongqing which is phenomenal at night and we have this camera; it was a kind of ideal combination. Panasonic is not the most popular option amongst DOPs. They often go for Arris of Sonys. That camera was my first creative choice when I started on the film. I shot the entire film with it.
With each film, you start at point zero, with a clean slate. I like thinking of which tools I will need, what we can do, what technology can also do to render a new look, something we haven’t seen before. That is the task the director assigned me at the time. For that very same film, I experimented with old Cooke lenses, for instance. I noticed that in China there is a certain aesthetic, a look that is somewhat clean. Which is exactly why I liked to make things a bit more rough. Using that older glass or that higher ISO; I find it quite interesting to go against the usual. But, all those creative choices should have a reason, it cannot be gimmicky or a fashion statement. If I get the feeling that something is not genuine, a show-off, or radical per se just to be radical, then it is about the filmmaker and not about the film. I don’t want that for myself. I look at what a film needs for its story. We are, of course, all influenced by the zeitgeist, but I regret it when you show off how good you are or how much money you have. And with some films you can sometimes just feel it. Impressive scenes can leave me thinking ‘but was that really necessary?’

Still 'Taha' (2024)

It is remarkable that much of Verhoeven’s work has been shot in cinemascope/widescreen.  Is that perhaps a crass display of muscle power after all? Verhoeven laughs it off: “I am reasonably agnostic when it comes to aspect ratios. I think that wide is beautiful, but it is not a must. It is about the script and what comes forward from a conversation with the director. How do we make the most of a story? For Taha, my graduation film, here at the American Film Institute, we spent a long time choosing the right aspect ratio. We thought for a long time ‘we will shoot cinemascope or 4:3.”

In Taha, the lead role is that of an older man who works for a circus. He sells tickets and is a jack of all trades. He admires the trapeze artists from afar.
“So the film is about heights. The old man literally rises to great heights. Which is what makes 4:3 interesting – lots of head space. But we never quite figured it out, so we did some tests with both. As far as I’m concerned it was more about the keyword ‘honesty’. We found that widescreen was better. This had everything to do with the location; there was so much going on there, and it also had to do with the texture here and there. Plus that lonely old man and a big world. From the story perspective, it also made more sense to pick widescreen.”

Thinking about how all creative choices should be right, lenses, camera, aspect ratio, lighting, Verhoeven lands on The Zone of Interest, that truly remarkable film by Jonathan Glazer from 2023. The holocaust as experienced from a house right next to Auschwitz; the camp itself is never really seen; instead you ‘hear’ it. You feel it all the more intensely and the decadent life of the camp commander and his family in that house along with it. A beautiful garden, a good life. Disgust, that is what Glazer makes you feel in a unique way.
Verhoeven: “They chose night vision for those night scenes. Really refreshing that DOP Lukasz Zal dares to go so far. A holocaust film and then shot in this way. I saw a Q&A with Glazer in which he talked about a conversation he had with Zal about how they both wanted the film to look very realistic. Pure objective documentation of what it could be like. About that family living next to the camp. Thanks to that cold documentarian style, the film has such a big impact. Glazer said that the choice to go for natural light meant that in night scenes you would not be able to see the moonlight. That is why they chose night vision. I thought that was inspiring, to think with the story as a basis like that. What is our mission, that approach. Style and story then become one.”

PREPPING
Thinking about that for a long time, how you want to tell what and how you bring those two together, is important to Verhoeven. That is why he likes to spend much time on pre-production. Ideally, he talks extensively with the director. Everything goes and anything is possible. All ideas can be explored.

setfoto 'Taha' (2024)

To get back to Taha Verhoeven tells: “I recall that we talked about the nature of the camera movements. That was the big question for me. We start out handheld, but it evolves into a film with camera movements that become evermore controlled.
That old man, who admires the trapeze performance so much, is in fact, lost in the world; no one really sees him. But then his chance comes along: he can literally and figuratively rise to great heights in that circus. That is, of course, a poetic approach. At the very moment that he decides to climb up into the big top, towards her, the woman, everything changes for him; he has a mission. That is why we went from handheld to steadier, with the steadicam. There was no way back, the man has to go on. That is how we let our choices be led by the story. I find that it is a really beautiful moment in the prep when everything begins to fall in place. It is not like that with every director, but with the best collaborations it certainly is.”

“I was really inspired by how Lubezki and Terence Malick collaborated on The Tree of Life”, Verhoeven continues. “They had thought out their own rules. In order to limit themselves. We also did that while making Nezha. We shot the largest part of that film with just two lenses, for instance. That brings a consistency into the equation. Back then, we were one of the first Chinese crews in China to use anamorphic lenses (Zeiss Master Anamorphics). There were only three of them around. We shot almost everything with 50mm. If you have a vast array of lenses, you can make a closeup without changing the camera position. That is a lazy way of filming. In contrast, we had to change positions constantly. I am convinced that that results in a visual language of its own. We also had the rule that we would cover as little as possible, e.g. thinking out how many shots a certain scene needs. No endless shooting, but economic and efficient. That is also easier for post-production.”

A special film in Verhoeven’s oeuvre is Koali & Rice. An elderly lady, her children have flown out ages ago, feels more and more alone, especially when her best friend dies. What kind of life does she still want to lead?
For Koali & Rice, Verhoeven also worked with a first time director: Qian Ye. “Qian is a young guy who has launched his own fashion brand. He is a self-made millionaire and he had the desire to make a film. I joined him in this adventure. What appealed to me was that he has such a passion for film and such a deep love for his hometown. That is where the film had to take place. In a small coastal town in southern China. With its own habits, own traditional dress, own music and an entirely different dialect, I could not understand the people. Qian brought me to these authentic places. To me, it was a really special experience. At times like that, I truly feel like I have the best profession in the world.
Although he had little experience as a director, he knew quite well what he wanted. Willing to have many conversations, confident and also willing to collaborate. For this project, we had prepped everything thoroughly as well. He also understood that I am a professional; he had seen previous work. We became friends.

setfoto 'Kaoli & Rice'

The town’s architecture was so special and the salt flats you see in the film gave us such wonderful imagery. The way the light falls on them, how people dress as well. We even reduced some of the colour, because those locations and the clothing were in fact even brighter.
And the house that the old lady lives in, is really there. What was there was so beautiful, we did not have to create it.
Qian was focussed on certain compositions; he wanted to film that ancient culture with a modern ‘lens’, but also be down to earth. Style-wise, I think it sometimes leans towards Wes Anderson with its focus on those colour combinations. What the people wear, certain objects in the scenes. That is how we set out to work, in a very specific way.”
UNITED STATES
Eventually, Verhoeven left for the States. “China now differs from the country in which I graduated. That has to do with policies that come from above. With how the arts are controlled. That has increasingly worsened and covid has not helped. The stories that you were allowed to tell back then, they are becoming less and less.”

That brings the conversation to Drifting, Hanxiong Bo’s short about the one-child policy. Would it still be possible to make that? Verhoeven hesitates. “Drifting is a short and those are regarded less stringently. But as a feature film, that story would absolutely impossible. The censors would certainly not allow it.

Still 'Drifting' (2019)

Of course I could have stayed and filmed. But most possibilities that are there, do not match my own ambitions. I want to make films that I would like to see as an audience. They take up about three or six months or a year of your life, so I should hope that I would want to see them. That is the only way to deliver your best work.”
Another reason to leave were the heavy working conditions. Verhoeven talks about long shooting days. Ash, for instance, was shot in sixty consecutive days.  And China has no ‘rules’ stating that after working for 12 hours you get to go home for a bit. “You can keep that up when you are young, but not your entire life.” But he also misses it: the country and working there. “It is an extraordinary place, a special country. But I feel bad about the lack of freedom, also for the talent that I know over there. The money now goes to the safe, boring stories. Propaganda films as well. That is not where my ambitions lie. They may be big projects with a whole range of cameras and lenses, all the money as well, but that is not for me.”

But isn’t Hollywood somewhat the same? Is that what Verhoeven is looking for, now he has moved?
“That was my dream from a young age, blockbusters and the like, but now that I’m here, I suddenly find arthouse cinema compelling as well. Films with a ‘real’ story. Let’s put it like this: I am not looking for the next Marvel film. I would do it if the opportunity arose, but I feel that the main thing is to make a combination.
The way a DOP like Matthew Libatique does it (The Whale, A Star Is Born, Birds of Prey, Noah). You make one big film and alternate that with a ‘small’ Aronofsky. Kind of like one for me, one for them. I would quite like that.”
Verhoeven says that he saw Brady Corbet’s The Brutalist (with Adrien Brody amongst others) the day before the interview. “Very good, with a ‘decent’ budget of course, a good cast, but also a highly original film. I think that is wonderful, I would really like to be able to do projects like that. But in China I made a lot of commercials and I kind of like that as well. To make those and then also shoot one or two beautiful films a year. I am, in fact, still finding my way in how I am going to do it all.”

EXAMPLE
Does Verhoeven have examples? “I am certainly someone who watches DOPs, more than directors. I immediately think of Harris Savides. An early inspiration. That lighting, it seems so simple; less is more. He once said that he tries to make everything look like it comes from one light source. Underexposure. With the entire frame underexposed. Very hard, especially when shooting on film. Because you do not know right away how it will turn out. You often see it turning muddy, but his work is always truly beautiful. And it is a fine line. He has the guts to go far but he always pulls it off. It is exiting and a testimony to his skills that he dares to do so.

In The Brutalist, you see something similar (DOP Lol Crawley). Right in the beginning, Adrien Brody gets on a bus. The camera is outside. Inside the bus it is dark, darker than outside. The result is that Brody almost disappears into the blackness. I can appreciate someone having the guts to do so. Someone like that has come a long way in their growth process; in a way, it shows his confidence. Maybe it is indeed a bit punk. That you dare to embrace the fact that not everything has to be perfect. I love that, the imperfect. I try to go into that more and more.”

Later in the day of the interview, Verhoeven will talk to a Chinese director. Maybe he will go back for a bit to work there. “Here in the States I am still more in the shorts. I try and work with talented filmmakers as much as possible and hopefully I will then land that first feature film. I choose projects with potential. With a good story, something I can identify with. Something we can take to a higher level together. I try not to do everything that comes my way because than you might lose your own track. But it is quite hard to maintain that focus. I mainly find it exiting. Of course I have films in my name in China, but no one here knows them. In a way, I have to start all over again. Build a new network. I used the American Film Institute for that purpose (with Taha as graduation film). People here were worried because of the strikes. The cost of living is really high. Everyone is checking what A.I. will do. I cannot complain with what I have done up to now, but apparently it has been a slow year. Many people are uptight about their finances. It has been exhausting. Many DOPs who have come further, say that the first year is a struggle.”
Well, that is something that is behind Verhoeven now. And above all, he has high hopes. What is more, he’ll always have China.

Author: Gerlinda Heywegen
Translation: Sonja Barentsen